tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post8552388677713925199..comments2023-11-05T16:19:05.197+08:00Comments on Unam Sanctam: Spiritual Fatherhood in the Catholic ChurchAndrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09356738924839809045noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post-50698114571980455242008-09-24T02:07:00.000+08:002008-09-24T02:07:00.000+08:00Check out my post in response.An issue by issue re...Check out <A HREF="http://andrew4jc.blogspot.com/2008/09/call-no-man-on-earth-father.html" REL="nofollow">my post in response.</A><BR/><BR/>An issue by issue response will follow.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09356738924839809045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post-78362686319794512582008-09-23T23:29:00.000+08:002008-09-23T23:29:00.000+08:00Andrew, nice job on the pictures and what not-But ...Andrew, nice job on the pictures and what not-But uh-Where is your support? I understand that many people bow to show "respect" to elders but this article/response to my comment bears no spiritual or biblical backbone. This page is based off of mere opinion and your OWN insight.. Let's talk BIBLE, let's talk TRUTH here. Like I mentioned earlier, theories and or opinions are invalid. That is why the entire world has been led astray, they don't stick to the source.. Don't you agree? Or not..If bowing wasn't such a "big deal", then why were Meshack, Shadrack, and Abednego willing to be burned alive instead of bowing to show "respect" to the statue of Nebudchanezzer? If it wasn't such a "big deal", then they could've just bowed physically to save their lives and not meant the act in their hearts right? Wrong! Bowing is an act of worship according to the Bible's standards and the Bible is all I need to go by... Not your opinion or trying to understand different cultures-And I don't mean that in a rude way by any means. Addressing a person that is in a authoritative position as "sir" or "mr." is as formal as it should be- What should we call him? Master President? Of course not! You can respect a man's position without offending God, and that's how it should be. Again, as I stated before, when Stephen said "Hear me brethren and fathers.." he was addressing literal fathers..Lol.. The title "Father" that Jesus was talking about is when someone uses that title as a means of lordship-Not a mentor which is what being a father means. Please people, let's not go in circles here. And on top of that, we are not speaking of the different cultures that bow, we are talking about the bowing to the pope... You pledge obedience to him right? Why? While you're at it, answer this as well, why were the 10 commandments changed by the Pope? I guarantee you'll talk yourself into a corner..But i'll give you a chance. Ciao!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post-86895204654513206582008-09-23T22:01:00.001+08:002008-09-23T22:01:00.001+08:00Aloha, It is me again, the one who said call no ma...Aloha, It is me again, the one who said call no man father. First I would like to say, I am not a protestant-I am nondenominational. I follow the bible strictly for what it says and do not cling to a religious group or denomination.. To do so already causes seperation between Christians because there is always a constant battle to defend that "I am a baptist" or "I am Catholic" etc. So we can drop that assumption of what I am now that I have told you. Now, I never thought or assumed, dearest Andrew, that Catholics were ignorant of what is in the bible. I do know, however, that ALL (not just catholics) religious groups have "omitted" parts of the bible to fit their teachings... Doesn't mean you have not studied it.Now Let's get to the worshipping of Pope Benedict (or pope's/priests in general) first. Just about every picture I've seen of any pope, there were people kissing his hand, priests laying flat on their faces and stomachs to show reverence, people carrying him on a throne and their heads bowed low or bowed down on their knees...Is that not worship? If not then what is it? Why are these people bowing to this man? Is he God? We already know that answer... So what is it exactly? In ACTS 10:25-26 Cornelius falls to the feet of Peter to show reverence and Peter immediately corrects him and says "Get up, I am a MAN just like you are!" Now, if Peter was humble such as this and gives ALL glory to God, who is the Pope? Another example, Revelation 19:10- John falls to the feet of an angel, and even the Angel says "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimoney of Jesus. Worship God!..." So you see.. Even the heavenly angels know its wrong to have any one to bow to them.. I understand showing respect, BUT bowing, kneeling, laying flat on your face, kissing hands and feet,etc.. is going a tad bit too far.. don't you think? I bow to no man but I do bow and worship GOD who is not man. Please look up yourself these photos.. they are all over and will show these extreme acts of "respect". Matter of fact, I've seen pictures of people praying to the statue of the dead John Paul... HUH? LOL.. Seriously... what is THAT about..This may hurt a little, but even you Andrew, worship the Pope. Right there on your little side picture collage on THIS page, you have " I pledge OBEDIENCE to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, Vicar of Jesus Christ." WOW! When you are "obedient" to someone, you are acknowledging that they have power over you or that they are in a "higher" position than you.. kinda like they are your master and you are their slave.. I don't know about you (yes I do, I take that back) but I pledge obedience to ONE and that is God. I think you should change that to something more appropriate like " I pledge obedience to ... GOD." <BR/><BR/>Now, moving on to the "Call no man father.."... Now Jesus is not referring to the literally tense of "father" as in a man who has biological children.. no not all.. He is talking about someone taking on the TITLE as "Father" as a means to exalt themselves.."Call no one Rabbi because you are all brothers.." Meaning that WE humans are all on the same level (we are brothers), no one is above another as God is above us. Read the rest of that verse and He clearly explains that.. He is referring to the title of "FATHER" as a means of "Lordship"..You took that out of context completely. Now as far the spiritual son, that is not exalting onesself with the title of "father",but as a mentor which is what being a father is and in that context, he was not requesting "father" to be a "title". In my church, I have spiritual mothers, brothers, sisters, and fathers but not in the sense of "HOLY FATHER" as you call the pope or that I exalt them... No not at all.. We are all the same. And to better support this "theory" which is not theory at all but truth, the pope's title is Vicar of the Son of God (Vicarius Filii Dei)... Hmmmm.... WHEW! That's a bit extreme and BLATANT! No need in me going in to what those letters stand for, I'm sure you have already had that conversation.. but to have a title that means the substitute of Jesus on earth is blasphemy!!! Jesus said that you will see Him coming just like you see lightening that strikes in the east is visible from the west. No man is the mediator between man and God. So, we know that the title "Holy Father" is not what we would describe as some one who is a mentor, no. This title is EXACTLY what Jesus Himself was talking about.... This title is used as a means to exalt the title carrier... Vicar means substitute or representativ.. That is why he calls himself "Holy Father" because he believes (as well you all) that he is the substitute of Christ on earth.. Tsk tsk. <BR/><BR/>I noticed that you did not expound or even defend the question as to why Catholics pray to Mary.. Why not? Is it because you have no biblical backing? Or why is it that Catholics bow to statues of Mary, Jesus, and dead John Paul? You do know that you are not praying to these people but demonic entities right? Why did the Pope change the 10 commandments? You know I read that the pope said that he had the divine power to do so.. power from whom? Satan? Lol.. Please "enlighten" me dearest Andrew.. I beg you. Oh and no I don't go to Sunday school or what have you... I uphold the Sabbath just as God commanded us ALL to do... Please use the bible when you address these questions, if you address these questions.. I don't care for "theories". Thanks much!<BR/><BR/>I wanted to paste this response in response to your post.. I have not read this article yet, but I will in a few and will respond intelligently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post-50647749619627309922008-09-23T22:01:00.000+08:002008-09-23T22:01:00.000+08:00Aloha, It is me again, the one who said call no ma...Aloha, It is me again, the one who said call no man father. First I would like to say, I am not a protestant-I am nondenominational. I follow the bible strictly for what it says and do not cling to a religious group or denomination.. To do so already causes seperation between Christians because there is always a constant battle to defend that "I am a baptist" or "I am Catholic" etc. So we can drop that assumption of what I am now that I have told you. Now, I never thought or assumed, dearest Andrew, that Catholics were ignorant of what is in the bible. I do know, however, that ALL (not just catholics) religious groups have "omitted" parts of the bible to fit their teachings... Doesn't mean you have not studied it.Now Let's get to the worshipping of Pope Benedict (or pope's/priests in general) first. Just about every picture I've seen of any pope, there were people kissing his hand, priests laying flat on their faces and stomachs to show reverence, people carrying him on a throne and their heads bowed low or bowed down on their knees...Is that not worship? If not then what is it? Why are these people bowing to this man? Is he God? We already know that answer... So what is it exactly? In ACTS 10:25-26 Cornelius falls to the feet of Peter to show reverence and Peter immediately corrects him and says "Get up, I am a MAN just like you are!" Now, if Peter was humble such as this and gives ALL glory to God, who is the Pope? Another example, Revelation 19:10- John falls to the feet of an angel, and even the Angel says "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimoney of Jesus. Worship God!..." So you see.. Even the heavenly angels know its wrong to have any one to bow to them.. I understand showing respect, BUT bowing, kneeling, laying flat on your face, kissing hands and feet,etc.. is going a tad bit too far.. don't you think? I bow to no man but I do bow and worship GOD who is not man. Please look up yourself these photos.. they are all over and will show these extreme acts of "respect". Matter of fact, I've seen pictures of people praying to the statue of the dead John Paul... HUH? LOL.. Seriously... what is THAT about..This may hurt a little, but even you Andrew, worship the Pope. Right there on your little side picture collage on THIS page, you have " I pledge OBEDIENCE to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, Vicar of Jesus Christ." WOW! When you are "obedient" to someone, you are acknowledging that they have power over you or that they are in a "higher" position than you.. kinda like they are your master and you are their slave.. I don't know about you (yes I do, I take that back) but I pledge obedience to ONE and that is God. I think you should change that to something more appropriate like " I pledge obedience to ... GOD." <BR/><BR/>Now, moving on to the "Call no man father.."... Now Jesus is not referring to the literally tense of "father" as in a man who has biological children.. no not all.. He is talking about someone taking on the TITLE as "Father" as a means to exalt themselves.."Call no one Rabbi because you are all brothers.." Meaning that WE humans are all on the same level (we are brothers), no one is above another as God is above us. Read the rest of that verse and He clearly explains that.. He is referring to the title of "FATHER" as a means of "Lordship"..You took that out of context completely. Now as far the spiritual son, that is not exalting onesself with the title of "father",but as a mentor which is what being a father is and in that context, he was not requesting "father" to be a "title". In my church, I have spiritual mothers, brothers, sisters, and fathers but not in the sense of "HOLY FATHER" as you call the pope or that I exalt them... No not at all.. We are all the same. And to better support this "theory" which is not theory at all but truth, the pope's title is Vicar of the Son of God (Vicarius Filii Dei)... Hmmmm.... WHEW! That's a bit extreme and BLATANT! No need in me going in to what those letters stand for, I'm sure you have already had that conversation.. but to have a title that means the substitute of Jesus on earth is blasphemy!!! Jesus said that you will see Him coming just like you see lightening that strikes in the east is visible from the west. No man is the mediator between man and God. So, we know that the title "Holy Father" is not what we would describe as some one who is a mentor, no. This title is EXACTLY what Jesus Himself was talking about.... This title is used as a means to exalt the title carrier... Vicar means substitute or representativ.. That is why he calls himself "Holy Father" because he believes (as well you all) that he is the substitute of Christ on earth.. Tsk tsk. <BR/><BR/>I noticed that you did not expound or even defend the question as to why Catholics pray to Mary.. Why not? Is it because you have no biblical backing? Or why is it that Catholics bow to statues of Mary, Jesus, and dead John Paul? You do know that you are not praying to these people but demonic entities right? Why did the Pope change the 10 commandments? You know I read that the pope said that he had the divine power to do so.. power from whom? Satan? Lol.. Please "enlighten" me dearest Andrew.. I beg you. Oh and no I don't go to Sunday school or what have you... I uphold the Sabbath just as God commanded us ALL to do... Please use the bible when you address these questions, if you address these questions.. I don't care for "theories". Thanks much!<BR/><BR/>I wanted to paste this response in response to your post.. I have not read this article yet, but I will in a few and will respond intelligently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post-29780920981519791202008-09-22T21:25:00.000+08:002008-09-22T21:25:00.000+08:00Way to go Andrew! Always wished I could defend the...Way to go Andrew! Always wished I could defend the Faith like that.Continue your good work and God bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com