tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post5272154551470335937..comments2023-11-05T16:19:05.197+08:00Comments on Unam Sanctam: Built on the Rock: Understanding the scriptural foundations of the Petrine Primacy (Part 1)Andrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09356738924839809045noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post-71206623582571512312008-10-28T14:37:00.000+08:002008-10-28T14:37:00.000+08:00Opps...My bad about the bisophric of Cyprian.About...Opps...<BR/><BR/>My bad about the bisophric of Cyprian.<BR/><BR/>About the point about Communion with the American Episcopal Church, communion is not a transitive relation. I maybe friends with A and A maybe friends with B, but that does not entail that I am friends with B. The province of SEAsia has already declared broken communion with the Episcopal Church.<BR/><BR/>No church is perfect, to claim doctrinal heresy for abandoning the church is like claiming the presence of pedophile priests in the Catholic church as a reason for abandoning the Catholic church, not something you'll agree I'm sure.<BR/><BR/>As you very well know, there are Catholic denomination that claims the See of Peter vacant, and have even elected their own Popes and set up their own magisterium.<BR/><BR/>The problem of the Pope needing interpretation itself is a problem most acute during the great Western Schism when there were two Popes, one in France and the other in Rome, and of course, their own groups of "magisterium" each supporting their respective Popes.<BR/><BR/>So who's going to interpret the Pope(s) or the magisterium(s) in such a case?<BR/><BR/>Your quote has already been answered by my quote from St. Cyprian.<BR/><BR/>"to the throne of Peter, and to the chief church whence priestly unity takes its source..."<BR/><BR/>"He arranged by His authority the origin of that unity, as beginning from one. Assuredly the rest of the apostles were also the same as was Peter, endowed with a like partnership both of honour and power; but the beginning proceeds from unity."<BR/><BR/>Thus, the See of Peter as a "source of unity" is a matter of *temporal order* or origin, in the EXACT same manner in which the covenants of God and salvation "originated" from the Jews and the Jews is the source of our salvation.<BR/><BR/>But the Jews does not *continue* to be the source of salvation, but faith in Christ is, in the same way, though the apostolic powers originated from the See of Peter, but your implicit assumption is that it is a sort of immament source of power, and it continues to be the source of the apostolic power. Although clearly St. Cyprian meant the idea of St. Peter as the "originator" of the authority to be merely understood in a temporal ordering.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post-66126805024645459062008-10-20T17:12:00.000+08:002008-10-20T17:12:00.000+08:00I was looking around your blog and lo, I found thi...I was looking around your blog and lo, I found this post which will fit exactly with the discussion which you began on my other blog. I shall reproduce parts of my reply here, regarding the primacy of St. Peter.<BR/><BR/>As the excellent Pope, opps, I mean the Bishop of Rome, Cyprian puts it,<BR/><BR/>"The Lord speaks to Peter, saying, I say unto you, that you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. And again to the same He says, after His resurrection, Feed nay sheep. And although to all the apostles, after His resurrection, He gives an equal power, and says, As the Father has sent me, even so send I you: Receive the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they shall be remitted unto him; and whose soever sins ye retain, they shall be retained; John 20:21 yet, that He might set forth unity, He arranged by His authority the origin of that unity, as beginning from one. Assuredly the rest of the apostles were also the same as was Peter, endowed with a like partnership both of honour and power; but the beginning proceeds from unity."<BR/><BR/>On the Unity of the Church<BR/><BR/>Thus we see here the correct interpretation of Jesus's words to St. Peter, coming from the mouth of him who occupies the Chair of St. Peter himself no less. It is not to be interpreted in the sense that the Chair of Peter has some kind of primacy, as is the corruption by Leo, the later Bishop of Rome, but the actual case is that all the other apostles were the "same as Peter" and that the same power which Christ granted to St. Peter, was also granted to all the other Apostles. The only "primacy" which St. Peter has is to be the first to receive it, or to be the "origin" of it, in exactly the same way in which Israel was the frist to receive the covenants of God and the "origin" of salvation, but that does not give Israel any primacy of authority or whatever.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, St. Cyprian would disagree with you that, "This [the keys if the Kingdom] is uniquely given to Peter alone and not to the Apostles." because St. Cyprian interpret the very same passage as saying that it IS a giving of the very same keys to the other Apostles.<BR/><BR/>Thus, here we have a very good case of a Pope/Bishop of Rome who has denied the primacy of Peter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14011761.post-32671411752189594302008-10-14T20:47:00.000+08:002008-10-14T20:47:00.000+08:00Fabulous post!Fabulous post!Jackie Parkes MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986690514568554656noreply@blogger.com